The Guy Pool trial

The Guy Pool trial

Last week we looked at the cross examination of Wen Yam and the testimony of W. P.C. Florry Stravens. This week the cross-examination of Supt. David Ashford reveals that the attorney for the defendant objected to the authenticity of his version of events. The testimony of Dr. Wade who examined the detainees and that of the Deputy Commissioner Goodchild are also featured in this week’s Issue. We conclude with the evidence of Dr. Macgregor, Commissioner of Police Frederick George Fenner and one Albert Desnousse who was arrested and detained in a seperate incident. He was being kept in a seperate cell at the time and was later called as a witness for the Prosecution in the case.

P.W.15 Supt. David Ernest Ashford (sworn)

Det. Supt. in charge C.I.D Seychelles. I remember that evening of 31st July, 1972, I had occasion to go to the police H.Q. I arrived there about midnight. I first go to the cells. I walked through the cells. I looked at the prisoners and I came back. There were the accused, his sister and one Desnousse. They seemed perfectly all right. They made no complaint to me. I did not go in any of the cells. I left the cells, went upstairs to my office. I found Wen Yam and W.P.C Stravens and told them to accompany me on a patrol. I left about 12.30 we went down to Victoria Street opposite the building of Temooljee, Adam Moosa and Dhanjee. I walked up and down that stretched many times. I walked round the shell station and I also walked down Long Pier. At the original inquiry in February I was not greatly involved. I occasionally assisted and I was dissatisfied with the lack of information from the persons from whom I expected I could get information and who lived in the vicinity of Adam Moosa’s. Basically I was having a good look at the habit of the watchman in that vicinity. I came back to the station about 3.40. I came into the yard of the station where I met Mr. Lau Tee and as a result of what he told me I went to the cells with Miss Stravens. At the cells I went to the accused and I said to him “I understand you wish to make a statement” and I cautioned him. I gave him the usual caution. He replied “I want to speak to my sister”. I took him to his sister. I said the same thing to his sister who said “I want to make a statement”. At this time they were both out of the cells. They were left in the company of Miss Straven and I walked back. They stayed with Miss Stravens for about a minute. I then told them to come with me. I met Wen Yam who was standing in the courtyard. I told him I wanted to take a statement and we walked upstairs. I left Daphne in my outer office , sitting on a chair and I walked through to my office. I told Wen Yam to record a statement in accordance with the Judges’ Rules. I told Miss Stravens to stay there. I then left the office and went to the control room where I saw Lau Tee. I told him to record a statement from Daphne and to get a policewoman to witness it. I went into my office twice, once to collect a book. I probably went in to get a box of matches the next time. I did not interfere in any way with the taking of the statement. I’ve never used violence, promise, threat or inducement to Guy or Daphne Pool at any stage. I interviewed a man called Flake Vidot. I interviewed him in my office. Wen Yam and Miss Stravens were present. This man’s name was Rene Vidot and I wanted to know from him whether he had any other name. I asked him just that. He said “I’m not answering any question”. I cautioned him before I asked this question. I made the usual caution. I interviewed one Claude Vidot for the same purpose. I was trying to establish whether he had other name. Wen Yam and Miss Stravens were present. I put the caution to him and then I questioned him and he refused to answer. I did not use any violence, or threat or inducement or promise to neither Claude nor Rene Vidot nor to any of the accused persons or any of the suspects.

Cross-examined: I cautioned both Vidots. I have reasonable knowledge of the Judges’ Rules. The first one said words to the effect “I am not answering any question” and the 2nd one said “I am not talking to you” or words to that effect. Once I am satisfied that individual understands he does not have to answer anything, I put questions to him. I did not record those answers anywhere. I made an entry in my pocket book to the effect that I carried out the interviews. I did not get them to sign any notebook. On each occasion Wen Yam and Stravens were present.

I remember when the accused was brought back to the Magistrates’ Court. I do not remember whether I appeared or if another crown prosecutor appeared. I remember he was remanded at the prisons and he was brought from the prisons to the Supreme Court.

Q. I put it to you that your version of your movements that night is untrue?

A. That’s not correct.

Q. I put it to you that this statement was extracted from accused by threats, promises and the use of force on your part?

A. I totally deny it.

Q. I put it to you this is not the first occasion you’ve done it?

A. I deny it.

Q. I put it to you it’s part of your technique to have a statement ultimately taken by somebody else.

A. As I explained yesterday I will take a statement under caution or any statement if I’m satisfied that the person has a sound command of the English language. In the cases which counsel referred to yesterday, my involvement was almost nil.

Q. I put it to you that you unsuccessfully tried to obtain statements by promises and threats from the two Vidots?

A. That is not correct.

Q. I put it to you that you exercised similar pressure in relation to Daphne Pool and Harry Bonte?

A. That’s not true.

P.W. 19 Dr. McGregor (sworn)

William Bennet McGregor. I am the acting DMS. I had occasion to visit the cell at the police station on 1st August. I went to the cell at the Central Police Station and there saw I Guy Pool and Daphne Pool. They complained they could not sleep and they could not eat. I examined them. I found nothing of note. I arrange for them to be provided with a special diet in order to help their appetite. I physically examined both of them. I did not find any marks of violence on them. None of them complained of any violence being used against them or of having been used against them. On 1st August they did not complain of anything else. On 2nd August Daphne Pool complained of itching of her skin and she had insect bites on various parts of her body. When I saw Guy Pool on 1st August he had some abrasions on the tips of his toes and nail of the 2nd toe was missing. He told me that he sustained those injuries playing football some days previous. I would put the injuries at 4 days to 1 week old. There was some secondary infection on the nail bed that had lost its nail. The injuries were perfectly consistent with his story.

After Dr. McGregor had completed his defence in examination-in-chief he was then cross-examined by Defence lawyer, Mr. Acroo Kapila.

Q. Prior to the 1st visit had you been visiting the cells to see any prisoners?

A. No.

Q. Are you the DMS?

A. I’m the acting DMS. That was my position at the time

Q. On that day apart from Guy and Daphne did you see any other cell inmates?

A. If Harry Bonte was there that day I saw him. I’m not sure.

Q. Did you examine any other prisoner?

A. No. If Harry Bonte was not there that day I examined whoever was there out of the names I’ve mentioned. That was on 1st August. It was sometime in the late afternoon.

Q. At whose request did you examine them?

A. I was asked by the Commissioner of Police.

Dr. Wade then gave evidence.

Warwick Herbert Alfred Wade. I am a legal practitioner stationed at Victoria Hospital. I am also the prison medical practitioner stationed at Victoria Hospital. I’m also the prison medical officer. I visited the cells at Central Police prior to prisoners being transferred to the prisons. I was in the company of Dr. McGregor the acting DMS.

I saw 4 prisoners. I saw Guy Pool (accused) Daphne Pool and Harry Bonte. There was another whom I can’t remember. I did not carry out a full examination. I observed them from a short distance. I believe Pool had a bad toe which was healing. He claimed it to be an injury he got outside. It was’nt anything to suspect brutality. He claimed it to be an injury he received while playing football or tripping over. I did not see any police officers in the cells at the time. The prisoners were sitting on chairs and the policeman was at the gate. Daphne Pool complained of a rash on her back. We took her to one side to examine her back and we thought it was probably due to bed bugs. I’ve seen Guy Pool and Harry Bonte at the prison since. I saw Guy Pool before. I did my routine visits. I was called up at 6 a.m. on 11th August and he complained of headaches and heaviness in the chest. He had no fever and I thought he had a common cold. In fact I thought it was anxiety prior to him being brought to court the next day. Apart from that Guy Pool has not made any other complaints to me nor has Harry Bonte.

P.W. 21 Deputy Commissioner Goodchild

Alfred John Goodchild. Deputy Commissioner of Seychelles Police. My duties are overall administration of the force. It is so directed that if considered desirable I have dealings with complaints made against the police in this context. On 1st August I had occasion to visit the cells at Central Police Station at 6.30 – 6.45 a.m. I was in the company of the Commissioner of Police. I saw some prisoners, one of whom was the accused. I also saw a woman prisoner whose name had been told to me. I was present when they were questioned by the commissioner. I have a recollection of some reference to food by Guy Pool. I have no recollection of any other complaints by him.

(Witness refers to his notebook)

There was no other complaint from ref. to food. The commissioner asked him if he had any complaints and generally enquired about his well being. The accused has no complaints other than the reference to food. The prisoners appeared not in any way unusual, abnormal. They were not excited. I could see no marks of violence on them.

Q. An allegation had been made that he received a back handed blow across the face.

Did you see any marks?

A. No. I saw a lady prisoner but not to speak to her. I had seen her earlier in a room at H.Q. She made no complaints whatsoever. I was also in the company of the Commissioner of Police at that time. She was asked whether she had any complaints and was everything all right. She made no complaints at all. I saw no visible marks of injury on her. She did not appear distressed. She was on her bed on the point of retiring. She did not appear distressed at all. I saw no signs of recent weeping.

Dr. McGregor visited the cells later. It was a 4.15 p.m. I left him alone with the prisoners. It was 1st August.

On 2nd August I received a letter with the heading and signature of Mr. Valabhji, lawyer. He referred to certain prisoners in the cells of which Guy Pool was one and the lady prisoner was also one. I have the letter with me. (Passed letter to A.G.) I produce this letter Exhibit W (No objection) (witness reads out letter).

There is no allegation of police brutality or ill treatment in that letter.

By Court : I have no note that Mr. Valabhji visited the prisoners that day. He may well have.

By A.G. : I believe Harry Bonte was arrested on the 2nd. I was not present when he, the accused or Daphne were arrested.

On later days I made routine visits to the cells and saw the prisoners there. On 4th August I saw Rene Vidot in the cell. He complained to me. His complaint related to an allegation that Mr. Ashford had made certain suggestions to him involving a reward of money some Rs. 50,000. I investigated this complaint. I inquired into the complaint. I obtained statements from persons most likely to know if such a suggestion had been made by Mr. Ashford. I came to the conclusion.

Mr. Kapila : I object.

Q. What was the end of your investigations. Was any action taken against Mr. Ashford?

A. No.

By Court :

Q. Why not?

A. The allegation was not substantiated and not true.

By A.G. :

On 4th August approximately 9 a.m. Rene Vidot asked to see Mr. Albert Rene his advocate immediately before he goes to court although Mr. Valabhji is his advocate and although he had seen Mr. Valabhji yesterday evening. Subsequently he was released from custody on that day. No futher complaints were made to me. I saw him a couple of minutes before 2 o’clock just before he was released and he made no complaints to me. I had occasion to see Harry Bonte in the cells on 5th August at 8.30. He first complained that his lawyer Mr. Valbhji had not been to see him. He asked if Mr. Valabhji could not come, could he see Mr. J.E. Thomas or Mr. Rene. He also asked could he see his father Harold Bonte. I took a note of his complaint. I brought his complaint to the notice of the Commissioner of Police and I wrote a letter to Mr. Valabhji. I have a copy of the letter. (Mr. Kapila not objecting and agrees to the production of the copy). Copy produced and marked Exhibit X. A.G. states Mr. Kapila does not have the original. Witness reads out copy of the letter).

I saw one Claude Vidot on 5th August at 8.35 a.m. He complained about having no pillow that he had asked for the previous day. He also complained that during the night previous between 10 – 11 p.m. a constable had woken him up by pulling his blanket from him and had pointed his finger at him and had said “You know something in this case, you will have to say?” He did not mention the name of the constable but I understood to whom he was referring. It was brought to my attention by the cell guard. I inquired into the complaint. Complaint was also made that cigarettes and matches were removed from the prisoners at the time. I inquired into the complaint. No action was taken against him because any act relating to the circumstances had in any way been directed at the prisoner to his detriment. I was unable to find evidence to substantiate whether any such threat had been made. I understand it is not normal for prisoners to have matches and cigarettes late at night in their cells. They could cause a fire. I brought the complaints to the notice of the Commissioner of Police. I have no record of visiting Claude Vidot again but I may well have. Mr. Valabhji came to see his client subsequent to the writing of Exhibit X. He made arrangements for Claude Vidot to make a statement in his presence and he asked for my presence. Arrangements were made for his client to be brought to an office and the statement was recorded by Max Fontaine. I sent Supt. Stone with them. An allegation was made in the statement against Mr. Ashford. It referred to the pointing of revolver at Claude Vidot by Mr. Ashford. Inquired into this allegation. No action was taken against Mr. Ashford. The allegation was found to be untrue and not substantiated. On the 8th August I saw Claude Vidot again in relation to a visit by his brother Rene Vidot to the station. I arranged for the two of them to go in a room. P. Cpl.Esparon and W.P. Sgt. Sinon were present and I was present as well. I obtained translation of the conversation independently from the 2 officers. I have copies of the translations. No allegation was made to that conversation. It related to domestic relations. I produce copies of the translation. (Mr. Kapila has no objection). As a result of the conversation Mr. Rene Vidot was allowed to give Rs. 10.00 to his brother for his personal use. At 9.20 a.m. on 9th August I saw Harry Bonte. He complained of rheumatic pain in his right thigh. He asked to see De. Ferrari. He requsted money from the National Provident Fund. He also asked to see Mr. Rene on some personal matter relating to a mortgage of land. I made no note of any unusual demeanour from Claude Vidot. On occasions I saw Daphne Pool. On that day she requested to see her sister Mrs. French. She had no complaint. Claude Vidot had no complaints. I saw Guy Pool and he said he had no complaints except for a slight headache. It is part of my duties to make occasional checks of the cells. The immediate responsibility rests with the officer in charge of the station. The next responsibility would rest with the officer in charge of the district Mr. Stone and further with the duty officer of the day, the 24 hour duty officer. I gave the prisoners every opportunity to make complaints. Apart from the complaints I’ve mentioned here no other complaints were made to me. The Commissioner and I were in uniform when we visited the prisoners and we told them who we were. I first saw the lady prisoner at 6.39 a.m. in a room and I saw both her and the accused at 8.20 a.m.

Cross-examined:

On both these occasions the commissioner and I. On the first occasion I only saw the lady in a room upstairs on a bed. I asked her if she had any complaint and she said no. The Commissioner asked her. I was present. At 8.20 a.m. we saw them in the cells. Guy and the lady were in separate cells. We spoke only to Guy Pool at that time. It was 1st August. The commissioner asked him whether he had any complaints and he said no. Rene Vidot also made an allegation concerning Mr. Ashford. He referred to Rs.50,000--. My note reads “He has complained last night to Mr. Valabhji about what Mr. Ashford had said about Mr. Rene. Mr. Ashford had offered him Rs.50,000.—and will give him security and free passage to Australia if he would say that he was in the car with Mr. Rene. He saw that this was not true because Mr. Rene is the leader of the opposition party, is also an advocate and an elected member of the Assembly for Cascade. He said Mr. Ashford was trying to influence him. That is all he was to say”. This was in creole. It was interpreted by P.C. Hermitte. I made a note of it at that time. I made an inquiry into this allegation. I recorded statements from these people most likely to know the truth or otherwise of the allegation. They were P.C. Desnousse, P.C. Wen Yam, W.P.C. Stravens and Mr. Ashford. My conclusion not to take any action against Mr. Ashford was based as a result of those statements. I made inquiries about the complaints of Claude Vidot. I inquired from the same people. I took statements from them. I reached my conclusion on the basis of their statements. The duty officer of the day is the last responsible person to visit the cells. I have a recollection that there was another prisoner in the cells when I first saw Guy Pool. I spoke to him. I do not know whether the commissioner spoke to him. It would be approximately the same time. I have a note that I saw accused in the cell at 8.20 a.m. I do not have a note about the other prisoner. I do not have a note of my interview with him. The commissioner was with me. I did not visit the cells on Monday nor Sunday. I have no note of visiting the cells on Saturday.

Q. Prior to that date when had you and the Commissioner together visited the cells to see the prisoner?

A. I have no recollection. That was the first and only occasion on which we visited the cells together. The normal time I get to the office every morning is at 8. The Commissioner arrives at approximately the same time. That morning at 6.39. I went to the station at the request of the Commissioner. He phoned me at my house at approximately 10 minutes to 4 a.m. He told me we were to see Guy and Daphne Pool.

Re-examination:

Q. What is the end of your note about Rene Vidot’s complaint?

A. “That is all he has to say only to make me believe that Mr. Ashford said about Mr. Rene is not true. He wishes to see Mr. Rene for this reason.”

No further questions.

Witness released.

P.W. 22 Commissioner Fenner

Frederick Georges Fenner. Commissioner Seychelles Police. I am in entire command of Seychelles Police. On 1st August, 1972 I had occasion to visit the cells at Central Police Station at 08.20 hrs. Before visiting the cells I visited the photographic room at about 06.39 hrs. I visited one Daphne Pool in the company of the Deputy Commissioner of Police Mr. Goodchild. I introduced myself and Mr. Goodchild to Daphne Pool in the presence of W.P.C. Pointe. I asked Daphne Pool if she had been well treated. She replied yes. I asked her if she had any complaints or problems. She replied no. There were no visible marks or signs of injury upon her. She appeared to be normal and was not in any distress at all. There were no signs of recent weeping. I then left police H.Q. I returned at about 8 o’clock. I went to my office at about 08.20 I went down to the cells. I visited the accused Guy Pool in the company of the Deputy Commissioner of Police. I again introduced myself and Mr. Goodchild asked Guy Pool if he had been well treated. He replied yes. I asked him if he had any complaints. He replied no and then stated that he was not happy with the food supplied by the prison department. There were no visible marks or injury upon him. He appeared to be quite normal and in no sign of distress. I am in overall charge of the police in Seychelles. I am in charge of police discipline. I’ve been here since 19th May, 1971. I was a senior officer in the Malaysian Police since 1951. During that time I have had disciplinary duties over fellow officers and the majority of my post as commander. I have had occasion during the time I’ve been a senior officer to discipline police officers. I have never failed to discipline an officer through pressure or other means. If a substantiated allegation is made against an officer under my command discipline would be taken.

Q. Certain allegations were made against Supt. Ashford in this case?

A. Yes. Mr. Goodchild reported these allegations to me. I caused these to be inquired into. I was completely satisfied with the inquiries. I took no disciplinary action against Mr. Ashford because as a result of the inquiries the allegations were found to be unfounded and not true. I am satisfied with Mr. Ashford as a Supt. in charge of C.I.D. I’ve not had an occasion to take disciplinary action against him.

Witness released.

P.W. 23 Supt. Stone

John Stone. Supt. in charge of central Police Station Victoria. I visited the Police Station on Sunday 30th July at 6.p.m. I visited the cells. I saw 2 prisoners there Guy and Daphne Pool. Guy is the accused there. They appeared in good health. They had no complaints. They were visited by the Deputy Commissioner Mr. Goodchild. I saw Harry Bonte in the cells on or after 1st August. He was in good health and he had no complaints. Claude and Rene Vidot were brought to the station on 2nd and 3rd August. They appeared in good health. There were no signs of any injury on any of them. On Saturday 5th August Rene Vidot made no complaint in my presence. The statement of the complaint was recorded by Mr. Fontaine. Mr. Valabhji was present. The complaint concerned the leveling of a revolver at Rene Vidot ‘s head by Supt. Ashford and the fact that he was kept awake in the prison cell on previous nights. I can’t say whether these complaints were inquired into. Before 5th a complaint was made of bed bugs in the station cell. The health department was contacted and the cells was treated on the same day. No complaints were made by Guy or Daphne or anybody else of police brutality upon them.

P.W. 24 Albert Desnousse

Roney Albert Desnousse. I was detained at the police headquarters around 31st July. A young lady and a young man were also detained in the station cells. I think the young man is the accused here. I did not hear any complaints by either of them. I only heard a loud voice during the night but I could not make out whose voice it was as I had just wakened up from my slumber. Few minutes later, I heard a voice which I think was the same voice. Few minutes later the voice stopped. I kept sleeping. I did not take any notice. I could not see anything that took place because I was downstairs and I think they were upstairs. I did not hear anything else apart from the loud voice. The accused never spoke to me, nor did the girl. It was a Seychellois voice. It was probably a woman’s voice. Next day I saw a doctor visiting the cells of the accused and the lady. It was the following morning. Probably they were eating the same food as I was eating. I did not see the food they were eating. I did not hear any screaming. The following day I saw by her face that she had been crying. I did not hear any unusual sound. The voice was a loud sound. I thought it could have been a drunkard on the street. It was Tuesday morning probably the 2nd that I saw by the lady’s face that she had been crying.

By Court:

Q. You say you saw her face that she had been crying. Was it the morning after the night you heard the voice?

A. Yes.

By A.G.:

Q. Did you make a statement to the police?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you say anything in it about the woman crying?

Mr. Kapila: I object as being xxtion.

Court: I will not allow the question.

Q. Did you say anything to the police about this matter?

A. They asked me for a statement. They questioned me about the beating of the lady and the young man. I said I heard nothing.

Q. Do you still adhere to that?

A. Yes. I was sorting out my own troubles. I did not want to get involved in anything that did not concern me. I did not take any care to know what was going on. I had my own troubles to sort out. I went on sleeping. I was thinking what was going to happen to me.

By Court:

Q. Did you witness any beating of the accused or the lady by the police?

A. No.

Q. Did you hear any scream from the accused that night?

A. No.

Q. Did you hear any scream from the lady?

A. I heard a scream in a woman’s voice.

By A.G.

Q. Has anyone ever approached you to change your statement to the police?

A. The police wanted to know more from me concerning another man who came to see me at home?

Q. Did anyone approach you to make a change in your statement?

A. Yes. I was told it was Philibert Loizeau.

Q. Did anyone approach you asking you to change your statement to the police?

A. Yes.

Q. Who?

A. Philibert Loizeau.

(Philibert Loizeau who is in court is asked to leave).

A. He came to me a week after I was released from the station. He wanted to know whether I had heard the beatings of the young lady and the young man. We went out together and we had a few drinks and he had another man with him who I do not know and whom I could point out. He asked me again and again “what did you hear in the cell” and told him “I heard nothing.

Q. That was the truth?

A. Yes. We went on drinking. I don’t know the place. I am a newcomer to Seychelles. We went to another hotel and had a few drinks. He said to me “in case you can give a statement to say that you heard these people being beaten I will be very glad.” Philibert Loizeau said so. I am not sure about the date. It was a week after my released from the station. I was released on 2nd August. Philibert Loizeau approached me a week later. There was a white boy with him. He is not in the court room.

Q. Did he say anything to you?

Mr. Kapila: I submit the whole examination of the witness now is cross-examination. He is challenging his former evidence.

Ruling: Question is admissible. It is evidence of the fact that he was being interfered with.

Witness :

The young boy told me I was wanted by Philibert Loizeau who wanted to talk to me and did I mind coming with him. Nobody else approached me besides Philibert Loizeau. We drove to the bars. He drove a red Toyota. Philibert told me that after the case they would give me something. It might be a society or union. He spoke in creole. He said: “apres z’affaire ine fine, nous va arranger, nous va donne ou quec chose” (after the case is over we will arrange it we will give you something). I did not have any interest to know who it was. I wanted to know what it was. He said “we will give you a good amount of money that will build your life later”. I said I would not change my statement.

Q. Did you hear any shouting that night?

A. I heard a shout.

Q. Did you hear any screaming?

A. I heard a voice shouting.

By Court:

Q. What you heard is the voice you described earlier in your evidence?

A. Yes.